"Often we try to offer God partial obedience. We want to pick and choose the commands we obey... I'll attend church but I won't tithe... Yet partial obedience is disobedience."And back in August 2009, the same good old Rick Warren went a little further. After quoting on tithing from Deuteronomy 14:23, he wrote:
"We develop spiritual fitness when we honor God by giving him a tithe every week... Why would anybody have to do that? Because God says so and that’s reason enough. If you don’t do it, you’re disobeying God."Sorry, but that's just wrong, and irresponsibly wrong at that. Tithing is an Old Testament command; the New Testament equivalent is simply giving, and it is not so much a command as a request based on gratitude to God and love and care for others.
Bad exegesis
Failing to tithe is in the same category as failing to follow regulations on sacrifices for mildew infestations
It's plain bad exegesis (not to mention pastorally abusive) to rip a couple of verses about tithing out of Deuteronomy and Malachi and then claim that not following them is disobeying God's command. Tithing is part of the old Mosaic law and relates to the temple-centric structure of ancient Israelite society. Jesus doesn't mention tithing (except in a slightly disparaging passing reference to the Pharisees' habit of tithing herbs); it forms no part of the instructions to Gentile converts in Acts; and even Paul doesn't refer to it. Tithing simply is not a binding command on Christians, and failing to tithe just is not disobedience to God. Full stop. Picking and choosing
Rick Warren talks freely of the danger of 'picking and choosing' which biblical commands we will obey. But he himself is picking and choosing which Old Testament laws he deems still to apply to Christians.Failing to give, most importantly failing to love and care - these are the real spiritual problems to address in our lives. Failing to tithe comes into roughly the same category as failing to follow Levitical regulations on proper sacrifices for infestations of mildew.
The cynic in me can't help wondering occasionally whether tithing would be preached on so often if it did not directly financially affect churches and their leaders...
(NB I should point out that this does not apply to the leaders of the church I belong to, who take a very sensible and liberating attitude towards personal giving.)
I'm surprised you're still reading Purpose Driven Life, Harvey...
ReplyDeleteI would have thought that it was fairly obvious why pastors or what ever they want to call themselves rip a couple of verses out of context and use them to blackmail the congregation, they either want or need the money. I personally think that mugging little old ladies for their pension money is morally a better choice. Or isn't that what they are doing?
ReplyDeleteHarvey,
ReplyDeletePleased to see the slightly more polemical angle coming over. See what you can do in a lunchtime? much more fun. It may be wrong (as some of this is) but it is so much more fun. Keep up the fun
Will - you can't just say some parts are wrong and then not say which!! Pray elucidate so I can argue :-)
ReplyDeleteTerry - I read PDL to give me something to moan about. Also it does occasionally contain something genuinely helpful, and only takes 30 seconds to read.
John - very good ;-)
Part 1 of 2!
ReplyDeleteWell Tithing. Where to begin. And the Old Testament vs New Testament. And Law vs Jesus. Etc.
To get to tithing and see what a Christian response might be we need to do some exploring of other things first.
The key thing that you say and I agree with totally is that whatever our response it is “based on gratitude to God and love and care for others”.
But then most Jews would say the same.
So how do we fit in Old and New etc. When Marcion proposed in the 2nd century that Christianity cut the ties with Judaism and the Torah he came to the logical conclusion that Christians drop the Old Testament. This was seen as undoable and wrong. The church realized that to do so also undercut both Jesus and Paul and all their arguments; which were based on Scripture (which in the 1st century meant the Jewish scriptures or the Old Testament).
So when Paul, most famously in Romans, appeals to faith he does so by quoting from the Old Testament. Indeed he goes back to the earliest patriarch – Abraham. He certainly does not reject the Torah (or Law). He affirms its goodness. What he challenges is how it is maintained and upheld. In this he points us to a life where as you say we base our faith about love and gratitude to God and love and care for others.
So we see the Torah on two levels. We see Jesus fulfilling in himself the requirements of the Torah and we see that our call is to exceed the requirements of Torah. How? By focusing our lives on pleasing and living out a life of faith in Jesus – based on love.
So Jesus and Paul challenge a fulfillment of the Torah that is designed to keep people out and to ring fence a sense of group identity. What neither of them meant was that anything went.
So Jesus in his “disparaging passing reference to the Pharisees' habit of tithing herbs” also tells them that a) that the higher issue is the issue of justice and b) that they should still tithe. In other words don’t get hung up on tithing at the expense of justice and love. But it is still there.
So how about the purpose of tithing. Well interestingly, the first tithe also goes back to Abraham. He tithes 10% of all he has gained in battle to Melchizedek. Who, again interestingly, appears in the book of Hebrew (New Testament) as an archetype perpetual High Priest (again the New Testament appealing to the Old Testament). So when it becomes codified by Moses it isn’t to support a Temple-centric setup as there is no Temple. The Temple doesn’t appear until Solomon. The tithe fulfills a number of things. It supports the Priests and the Levites and it supports the poor.
ReplyDeleteJesus never attacks these as a principle. He attacks people getting wealthy on giving and using widows’ portions for their own benefit. He holds up those who give all they have (the widow’s mite) and he warns those who are well off to give.
So where does that bring us? It brings us back to your main point generosity and love. Paul gathers a collection from the gentile churches (and it was obviously a lot because a number of people from those churches are to come with him) to take to the Jerusalem church as a tithe; as an offering to show that the gentile church is part of the wider church (which was in dispute).
So for us we support the mission of the church through our giving. We honour God by giving to his work through our giving. We help the poor through our giving. Does this mean 10%? No. It could be a lot more. It comes as you say through our heart attitude rather than a legalistic attitude and that means it’s both easier and more challenging.
As you say in your postscript we don’t “demand” 10%. I don’t know what people give. I do know that if more people gave we could do more to help others and extend God’s Kingdom.
I should also say that, of course, vicar’s are not paid by their congregation which takes the pressure off personally. But that frees me to challenge people to be Christian and give to others.
For me the problem with this one's not so much the Old/New Testament interplay - Jesus said he'd not come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it, jot and tittle etc, but this arrogance of famous Christian speakers (whatever their motivation and yes, C of E well organised in that respect, Vicars'd still get a stipend even if not a single congregation member gave a penny so it really is not personal/a Springfield issue)telling people that if they don't do the 10% thing they're disobeying God. I'm sorry, who gave them the right to guilt-trip and manipulate the scrupulous sermon-abiding believer? *excuse me while I hyper-ventillate in a corner for a few minutes!!*
ReplyDeleteWill, I'm honoured by the length and depth of your replies! I don't have time to respond in full now but just a couple of points.
ReplyDeleteI'm aware of Marcion and not jettisoning the Old Testament. However, I think we both agree that as a general rule the *specifics* of the Torah (as opposed to its underlying principles) are not to be applied without serious translation/interpretation within the New Covenant. Indeed some elements are now prohibited for us - circumcision for example. And the same passage in Hebrews that you cite points out that we no longer need to offer the animal sacrifices prescribed by Torah. We also don't tend to pay much attention to the prohibitions about mixing different types of fibre. Etc etc.
The NT only mentions tithing three times (plus a repeat) - once in the passage I mentioned from Matthew 23, repeated in Luke 11; once in the story of the self-righteous Pharisee (who tithes) and the tax-collector; and then in Hebrews 7. In none of these is there any direct teaching that we should view tithing as important or binding, or that failure to tithe is disobedience. Jesus does say - very much in passing - that the Pharisees shouldn't neglect tithing, but it's hardly much to base a doctrine on.
NB 'Temple-centric' was slightly lazy shorthand - call it 'tabernacle-centric' or 'priest-centric' if you prefer; the point still stands that tithing was related to the whole structure of ancient Hebrew society.
However, of course ultimately I agree - not being obliged to tithe is not an excuse not to give wholeheartedly. I just object to a famous and influential pastor preaching that failure to give the prescribed 10% is 'disobedience to God'. :-)
I note with sadness the devious and manipulative manner in which Will seeks to amend the New Testament scriptures to suit his own arguments. In Acts 15 the whole of the church in Jerusalem...all the apostles and elders and the Holy Spirit agreed that the ONLY requirements for Gentiles did NOT include any requirement to tithe. Will and other minsieters who deceive God's children into 'tithing' to them and their 'churches' exploit widows and the poor and will answer to God Malachi 3 : 5
ReplyDeleteWill, how come you failed to disclose your BIASE as one who was a benefiaciary of this deception....before you presented you phoney arguments?
Why did you not mention that Jesus said 'the sons are FREE'...regarding any obligation to give to God (Mat 17:26)?
Why do you sell the gospel (ie it will cost 10% of your income for life) ...when Jesus said GIVE it FREELY...Mat 10:8)...and God FREELY gives us ALL THINGS (Rom 8:32)?
Chris (Tithingtruth.com)
Will, you also mis-represent the gift from the Gentile churches to the starving saints in Jeruslem as 'a tithe'....WOW how can you treat the scriptures with such contempt?
ReplyDeleteGiving to the POOR was the ONLY form of giving that the apostles taught in the New Testament as a priority..
Gal 2:10
10 They desired only that we should remember the poor ...NKJV
The other giving which came before 'God' (except in the minds of religious deceivers of Jesus day who tried to say this was 'corban' and came first ...much like 'tithing' teaching today) was to provide for our families and parents.
1 Tim 5:8
8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. NKJV
Will, do you still preach that we should 'tithe' before providing for our familes? (breaking the 4th commandment by your traditions)?.....and should we give money to 'churches' ...before we care for the poor? contrary to almost 100 scriptures you should well know? (Mat 25:31-46 esp)
if you do...then I call on you to REPENT....and get saved!